Anyway, for years, working in energy efficiency we promoted evaporative heat rejection instead of, or to reduce, electric compressor cooling. But it is possible to cool anything, anywhere w/o evaporation. Thermal energy storage also works to level out cooling demand, and was common in big campus systems a few decades ago. Vegas & Henderson banned cooling towers and evap cooling two years ago. IMHO, there is a lot more of an "abundance" of land for solar electricity than an "abundance" of water for cooling in the SW.
P.S. As far as I know, in the SW US, most cleaning of PV panels is now waterless. (Brushing and sweeping instead.) In some locations cleaning is just not needed if a small output decrease is OK. The Solar Industry Assoc lists 0.02 gal/kWh as an average, 1/25th of coal/nuke 0.5 gal/kWh.
Hi Jonathan. I also choked a bit on the “plenty of water” observation. But I do winter how many acres of alfalfa would need to be retired to support one AI server farm? Seems like there ought to be a way to get money from the tech companies to support a gradual exit from the cow economy, while at the same time providing support to rural communities in the West.
I worry about how much the LLM’s are being downgraded by junk information. There has to be better quality control and choice about the AI systems we are forced to use at the expense of our natural resources.
I get the water and energy suck ups from these data centers - actually, even though I live in the East where - according to Mr. Yglesias we have all this water - that's true up to a point. Right now and many other times, we (and pretty much everyone else) are under a heat dome. Nineties and humid. I know, I know, its not anything like Arizona or other parts of the West - its too much.
Saying that - folks, its going to get worse and maybe "until it gets better".
As far as I'm concerned - these data centers AND the twits in DC pushing fossil fuels - need some actual intelligent "powerful" people to start REGULATING something,. I could go on, but I wont.
Hard to stop once you start, isnt it?
Sorry, Michael - the not in my back yard doesnt work here anymore than it does out there.
Jon, I'll post this elsewhere - if Michael wasnt aware of this - I bet there are way more people in the same boat. HES pretty sharp.
What a great essay!!! I never thought of the fact that requests to AIs cost water and that's a real eye-opener for me. I am almost entirely opposed to large data centers west of the cross-timbers. Let Musk have his Colossus center in Tennessee, that region probably runs a surplus, but not out here please,!
Yep. Dumb AI.
Anyway, for years, working in energy efficiency we promoted evaporative heat rejection instead of, or to reduce, electric compressor cooling. But it is possible to cool anything, anywhere w/o evaporation. Thermal energy storage also works to level out cooling demand, and was common in big campus systems a few decades ago. Vegas & Henderson banned cooling towers and evap cooling two years ago. IMHO, there is a lot more of an "abundance" of land for solar electricity than an "abundance" of water for cooling in the SW.
P.S. As far as I know, in the SW US, most cleaning of PV panels is now waterless. (Brushing and sweeping instead.) In some locations cleaning is just not needed if a small output decrease is OK. The Solar Industry Assoc lists 0.02 gal/kWh as an average, 1/25th of coal/nuke 0.5 gal/kWh.
Welp, there are always coal-fueled power plants🙄
Hi Jonathan. I also choked a bit on the “plenty of water” observation. But I do winter how many acres of alfalfa would need to be retired to support one AI server farm? Seems like there ought to be a way to get money from the tech companies to support a gradual exit from the cow economy, while at the same time providing support to rural communities in the West.
Don't know if you saw this: https://www.propublica.org/article/water-aquifers-groundwater-rising-ocean-levels
Well written Jonathan. Thank you for your insights. What compels some folks to blabber about stuff they know little about? Egads!
Thank you!
I worry about how much the LLM’s are being downgraded by junk information. There has to be better quality control and choice about the AI systems we are forced to use at the expense of our natural resources.
I get the water and energy suck ups from these data centers - actually, even though I live in the East where - according to Mr. Yglesias we have all this water - that's true up to a point. Right now and many other times, we (and pretty much everyone else) are under a heat dome. Nineties and humid. I know, I know, its not anything like Arizona or other parts of the West - its too much.
Saying that - folks, its going to get worse and maybe "until it gets better".
As far as I'm concerned - these data centers AND the twits in DC pushing fossil fuels - need some actual intelligent "powerful" people to start REGULATING something,. I could go on, but I wont.
Hard to stop once you start, isnt it?
Sorry, Michael - the not in my back yard doesnt work here anymore than it does out there.
Jon, I'll post this elsewhere - if Michael wasnt aware of this - I bet there are way more people in the same boat. HES pretty sharp.
What a great essay!!! I never thought of the fact that requests to AIs cost water and that's a real eye-opener for me. I am almost entirely opposed to large data centers west of the cross-timbers. Let Musk have his Colossus center in Tennessee, that region probably runs a surplus, but not out here please,!